Youtube

I really wish Youtube was an actual real, physical location. The way that it acts as a magnet for ignorant racist, misogynist, bigotted fuckwits would make it really easy to just

I should also learn to just never read the comments on videos I watch.  After the jump is a c+p of a recent exchange I had with a gentleman calling himself ‘disagreeablesob’ in the comments section of a video showing radical feminists disrupting a conference on abused men gaining access to support structures that are available to women who suffer domestic abuse.

Obviously I think that men should be able to access equal support and help when they suffer at the hands of partners and that these women were, for want of a better word, wankers. However I do take offence at the way some other wankers use this as an excuse to dismiss feminism in it’s entirity and to justify their own misogyny.

Actually, if Youtube were a real place then maybe we could send all the radical feminists there too…

I’ll update this as the argument develops in order to preserve it for posterity. And as a reminder to myself not to read the comments on Youtube…

When feminists ask “Why do men think feminism is about women HATING men?” I’ve got to ask “What the fuck about feminism ISN’T about women hating men?”
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob The vast majority of it. There are multiple feminisms and most of them have very little in their theory that could be described as ‘man hating’. Only Radical Feminism which was in the ascendancy in the 1980s has a fringe element that could be described so.
So basically you are referring to a fringe of a fraction of feminist theory that has been in the decline for over two decades.
Welcome to the year 2011.
(ps I am male and would not describe myself as a feminist)
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 You TALK like a Feminist Mr.”I’m not a Feminist”.After MORE than THREE decades,Feminists only backed off the “all men are pigs” diatribes because they realised they were scaring off too many STRAIGHT women.The LIE that “it was only a fringe element” doesn’t excuse the fact that only a handfull of Feminists EVER spoke out against violent misandry.And Feminists have ALWAYS taught and encouraged girls and women to feel and show DISRESPECT and CONTEMPT to men,and STILL do in 2011.
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob Sorry but you are just plain incorrect. You have obviously read very, very little(if any) feminist theory and obviously have met very few feminists. Using FULL CAPS does not increase the verisimilitude of your statement and merely serves to make you seem less intelligent than you, I’m assuming, are.
Could you please provide some evidence to support your statements?
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 You’re obviously incapable of grasping the concept of previous acts being indicative of what a group will do or say in future,and are also apparently unfamiliar with the concept of EMPHASIS.I’ve read nearly FOUR DECADES worth of Feminist Literature,or Women’s Studies.Like any organisation would if it’s former behaviour had gained it so untenable a reputation that they felt the need to relabel themselves,Second Wave Feminists now define themselves as being Third Wave Feminists.
disagreeablesob

@welshboi1649 That you need ME to supply you with an example of the kind of intolerance Feminists are capable of when the page we’re on has a video FROM 2006,that documents 1minute and 53 seconds of it makes me think that your claims of not being a Feminist is a blatant and deliberate attempt to masquerade as a Humanist Free Thinker,when what you are is a FEMINIST TRUE BELIEVER.And your defining yourself as a BOI makes me suspect that you’re actually a FEMALE passing as male,an ERSATZ man.
disagreeablesob
@disagreeablesob I missed this comment, sorry. The video was posted in 2006 but the event took place in the late 1990s. Did you even read the description? These women are the fringe of the fraction of feminism that I was talking about.
welshboi1649

@disagreeablesob I have met and conversed with many feminists and only an insignificant minority have ever espoused anything like the ‘all men are pigs’ attitude. In fact the vast majority see men as also being victims of patriarchy and constrained and arbitrary gender classifications.
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 Did you have THAT much difficulty grasping what I said?I’ll say it again,and hope it sinks in this time…Feminists only BACKED OFF the “all men are pigs” diatribes(by which I mean to say they no longer PUBLICLY say it,but what they say privately is,I have no doubt,very different)because they realised they were scaring off too many STRAIGHT women.Feminists only curtailed the anti-male rhetoric because they realised their INCESSANT misandry made women perceive them unfavourably.
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob Jeezo. I would like you to provide something to support your statement. Writing in FULL CAPS does not do this. Could you please tell me which feminist theorists it is you are referring to? Are you talking about first, second or third wave feminism? Liberal feminism, Marxist-Feminism, Eco-Feminism or Anarcha-Feminism?
Could you point me to where feminists have had this discussion about ceasing to call all men pigs? Or did they all just magically decide at the same time?
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 Okay,first of all,you can STOP peddling the Feminist jargon,I’m not buying it.Deliberately misquoting me won’t help your argument,as I said “all men are pigs” DIATRIBES,as in there being a GENERALISED theme to every Feminist rant.YOU said they don’t call men pigs.I’ve been aware of the apparent decline in the volume of misandry being displayed in the language of Feminists in the media.I’m willing to accept Feminists are attempting to reform their image.But I STILLdon’t trust them.
disagreeablesob

If you’d read the works of Feminist authors from the Betty Freidan onward,instead of the no doubt carefully selected contemporary works that are part of Feminisms attempt to soften it’s image while continuing to operate with it’s previous political machinations still running,you’d know what the genuine nature of Feminisms ambitions are;to continue to alter and manipulate society into a Feminist Ideal of how the world should work.Regardless of whether or not anyone other than Feminists wants it.
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob Are you not quite getting what I am saying here? There are many strains of feminist thought. ‘Radical’ Feminism, often referred to as second wave feminism, was pretty much started by Frieden and it is, for a most part, utterly mental nonsense. This is recognised by the vast majority of feminists and the reactionary elements of the theory, misandry etc, have been abandoned on account of them being utter shite.
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 Both YOU and THEY,are LIARS.yOU SAY “Well geeze,it’s not like THESE Feminists said that hateful stuff”.But the fact is that when those OTHER Feminists were saying those things their sister Feminists didn’t speak up.If some women picked a fight with you,started hitting you,just kept punching and kicking you,and nearby you saw some other women who stood there,not telling the women to stop,not threatening to call the cops or trying to pull them off,what would you think of them?
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob I would think of them as being lousy individuals. I wouldn’t leap from that one limited experience that all women are scum. That is the thinking of the bigot and is precisely what you claim to be railing against.
welshboi1649

Feminists tolerated it,seeing it and hearing it,and since it wasn’t as if they had to care what the BOYS or MEN felt,they said NOTHING.And the most offensive aspect of it is knowing that most every Feminist would no doubt justify being a bystander to a public lynching by saying “Well of course,what WE have to go through all the time is SO much worse”.Which is bullshit,as BOYS are the children that suffer the worst abuses,NOT girls,and MEN are expected to ignore abuse from girls and women .
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob Feminists tolerated what? You’re not being very clear. Are you referring to child sexual abuse or something else? I think you will find that when it comes to abuse there is no real bias either way. Fucked up adults do fucked up things to children regardless of their gender.
In adults abuse is pretty much a one way street. 90-95% of people abused in a relationship are women and those that abuse are 90-95% men. That does not excuse the 5-10% of women that abuse though.
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 No.Once again,you talk pure shit when you don’t want to own up to what the facts are.Typical Feminist dissembling.The children most often neglected,mentally and verbally abused,physically abused,permanently maimed by abuse,and murdered,are MALE children.And their abusers are most often WOMEN,by at least 2 TO 1.And according to SUSAN STEINMETZ,author of VICTIMOLOGY,WOMEN initiate fights at least 50% of the time,and are actually the FIRST to escalate the confrontation to violence.
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob Can you present anything to substantiate your claims? I can.
w w w . childwelfare. gov / systemwide/ statistics/ can. cfm (get rid of the spaces)
This report shows that there is little differentiation between children based upon gender. The table you are looking for is on page 55 of the report.
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 Even if I didn’t know you were LYING,your use of 90 to 95 % as a number would have led me to think you were either making the numbers up,or trying to deceive me into believing that women are NEVER responsible for any of the conflicts or actual violence that happens in their relationships.I’ve SEEN women arguing with men escalate the confrontation(which is a nice way of saying they LOST their SHIT) from arguing to yelling to verbal abuse to slaps and punches.The WOMEN,not the men.
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob How does 90-95% imply never? That says that 5-10% of the time women are the aggressors. Are you ok? You seem to be getting less and less coherent as this goes on.
Look, one of the first things you have to learn when looking at society in an analytical manner is that your subjective experience is highly unlikely to be representative of wider society. You may have seen women being aggressive, as have I, but that doesn’t mean you can extrapolate due to the size of your data set.
welshboi1649

@disagreeablesob You do realise how much like a conspiracy theorist you sound don’t you? You claim that there is some kind of global feminist conspiracy that secretly makes decisions about the way that feminist theory will develop, yet refuse to provide any evidence to support this claim.
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 Again,you introduce something into this argument I DIDN’T say.I DID say that Feminists have an agenda,and if you would STOP cheerleading for them and actually read a paper or watch the news,you would have heard in 2005 or so that Feminists were making a pretense of giving a fuck about the fact that in schools in the U.K. and U.S.,after decades of Feminists influencing the educational system to favour girls,boys were in crisis.All of a sudden,AFTER creating the crisis,concern.
disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob See, what you’re doing here is called ‘making stuff up’.
welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 Idiot.As usual,when I present you with a fact you don’t want to hear,you ignore it.The book VICTIMOLOGY by SUSAN STEINMETZ,was the result of her extensive research into the root causes and processes of intrarelational violence.It found that women ADMITTED to starting fights at LEAST 50% of the time,and were most likely to escalate to using physical violence BEFORE their male partners did.And being aware of a male partners physical advantage,WOMEN used WEAPONS more often than men.

disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob OK, so I just looked up this book you keep harping on about. You do realise what nonsense it is right? She studied 57 couples in which four of the women suffered domestic abuse but no men did. So that’s a self reporting figure of 0%. Far lower than the 5-10% the figures I quoted show.

welshboi1649

@welshboi1649 Posted in 2006,from an incident that would have happened circa 1999 or 2000.Not the “late” 90’s.But by now I’ve come to expect you to speak in half-truths like any other Feminist does,so I won’t bother pointing out that these women are only some of the the more OPENLY aggressive and misandrist Feminists,and that there were and are plenty of Feminists who believe as they do,that men always DESERVE any violence women do to them.They just aren’t as publicly confrontational about it.

disagreeablesob

@disagreeablesob Really? Late 90s=1999 in case you didn’t notice.

welshboi1649

I WINS!

You judge Feminism by the best of what it’s done,I choose to judge it by the worst things it’s responsible for.Using YOUR scale,Nazi Germany could be said to have been a benevolent government,after all,it achieved a 100% employment rate,provided socialised healthcare,expanded the Autobahn’s size,and created the Volkwagen automobile.There was no political unrest,no calls from the populace for social reforms,no racial or class unrest,and a very low crime rate.Really,all very wonderful.EXCEPT FOR..

disagreeablesob

Clear violation of Godwin’s Law. Argument won by me. 😀

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